How to Transition Into a Franchise with Bob Barber

Once your systems are dialed in, it's all about daily behaviors, attitudes, and techniques in your business model. Bob Barber of Sandler Training explains in this podcast of The Franchise Academy.

Sandler Training franchisees train small to medium-sized companies and Fortune 500 businesses. They train salespeople and managers in industries such as insurance, real estate, high-tech, healthcare, financial services, communications, manufacturing, etc.

Sandler, the leader in Sales and Sales Management Training, has been voted the #1 training franchise in America by Entrepreneur Magazine thirteen times and the #1 Business Services Franchise by Franchise Business Review in 2020. In addition, Sandler was named one of the Top 20 U.S. Sales Training Companies by Selling Power Magazine and one of the Top 20 leadership training companies by TrainingIndustry.com. Sandler has also been named one of the Top 25 high-performing franchises by The Wall Street Journal.

0:00 welcome to another episode of the

0:06franchise Academy my name is Tom Scarda thanks for checking in with us once again if you have not been with us

0:12

before I'm a franchise advisor and coach and I match people with franchise opportunities welcome to another episode

0:19

of the franchise Academy my name is what I like to call it

0:26

um I work with folks all over the country been doing it for 18 years now uh but I'm I'm really interested in

0:32

getting into the conversation for today though enough about me I really want to talk about Bob Barbara So Bob is a

0:41

double franchisee so what I mean by that is he owns a Sandler training franchise

0:47

and he used to be in be an owner of Domino's Pizza you might have heard of

0:53

Domino's Pizza along it along the way so much unless you've been in business and so we're going to talk about a lot

0:59

about Sandler Bob has 36 years of business experience he's bringing us a

1:05

lot of stuff today 12 years um with pizza delivery 24 years with

1:11

business Consulting with Sandler he and his wife have an adult son a daughter as well as an English lab named Walter is

1:19

that right that's correct well I'm so happy you should have brought Walter on with us but um maybe next time maybe

1:26

next time he's not quite ready for prime time but again foreign

1:32

well hey you know what thanks for coming on the franchise Academy welcome and uh

1:37

so great to have you here and um thanks for having me

1:43

thanks for having me Tom I appreciate it good to be here my pleasure this is awesome

1:48

this is awesome tell me a little bit about um your journey I mean how did you even

1:54

get into Domino's I mean well The Dominoes was pretty much

1:59

straight out of college and that was almost a path of least resistance uh I'm still not quite sure how excited my dad

2:05

was that I I took a four-year degree and turned it into pizza delivery and management but uh it seemed to work out

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so uh it uh it all was kind of a a network of my my fraternity brother was

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had bought the franchise rights to build 10 stores so uh we we got involved there did site selection open stores from the

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ground up and and then I went on to become my own franchisee with my wife and we did that for about 12 years so uh

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after writing enough W2s for a lifetime I I said it's time for something else and and as those of you who know

2:36

Domino's you're open every day but two uh Thanksgiving and Christmas you get off kinda and uh and that was enough we

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worked enough hours and put in inside selection open stores to the ground yeah I decided to look for something else and

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that actually happened through my my dear and wonderful sister and who uh was a client of Sandler training at the time

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and she doesn't get news for a lifetime I talked to these guys and we decided to make the switch I actually became a

3:02

client for a while and uh I drove one way this is long before virtual Tom so I

3:07

was driving two live instructor-led training two and a half hours one way for a 90-minute session to learn how to

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sell and uh um and I get convinced we raised our ticket averages in in dominoes and uh it

3:22

really worked in many facets of life and I looked around the room at all the variety of people that had exploded their businesses and I said you know

3:28

what this works and they don't have employees and they Don't Wear Ties and they work some regular hours they seem to have a

3:34

balance of life so I've jumped in started from the ground up it's such a great concept Sim who's

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been around so it was started by David Sandler um going on probably 50 years ago now

3:46

pretty much yeah yeah right at right around 50. he kind of put the system together in the late 60s early 70s and

3:52

then really kind of started to franchise by default in the early 80s area and uh

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and it's kind of taken off from there and what one of the interesting myths that people kind of think is well it's

4:02

50 years old that's got to be stale um it's there was some real genius with

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David that he found something that was so generic but also Timeless I mean it's

4:14

just been able to morph and mold into pretty much any world that you need to have a communication uh so I'm not

4:21

trying to get preachy but it's just uh it's someone fairly passionate about and I am too I mean I'm a standard

4:28

client myself we're talking about that offline before I think it's a great system not only for business personally

4:35

it helped me with my personal life I mean there's a lot of things that can help we talk about you know the the

4:42

batting average that somebody has and what that what that means is your behavior uh in business your attitude

4:49

and your Technique and and so you guys train on that and help somebody you know

4:54

like me who never am I used to be a Subway conductor in New York before I got into this whole thing and um when

5:01

Sandler helped me be you know a top producer in my company in sales and it's

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just amazing and that it works across all Industries every where anytime

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um and but it also works in your personal life if you're going to buy a car you could uh raise some kids

5:23

there is no school to go for parenting and really this is about the best kind of communication tool we've got for that

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uh but Tom you just said something that I want to make sure people caught you went from a Subway conductor to

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sales is not a natural born gift

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it is a skill and art that can be taught and and learned for those that want to put in the dedication to change and

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growing practice um and that's pretty cool right the cooler thing

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is that Sandler is not sales it's really it's like leadership more than sales you

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never even talk about sales you're really talking about you know kind of the attitude that you

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bring and it's it's very consultative I mean people my clients tell me all the time like I feel at ease because I don't

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feel any pressure because I don't you know I'm not per no I can't talk anyone into buying a franchise it's impossible

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so again it does nobody any good and and sometimes people should not buy a

6:26

franchise and I help them do that too um and and it's good karma I don't make any money on that but you know if I

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could help somebody save their life life savings I think that it comes back to me and blessings and all the ways well time

6:40

I've talked my fair share of folks out of buying a franchise as well of a variety of styles in sizes but it's

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interesting so I consider Sandler a business to business franchise is B2B so

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am I correct in that do you do I have a fair amount of b2c clients there are nuances but uh but yeah it's it's

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probably most associated with a B2B type sales um but our clients uh my clients are b2c

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as well so I'm sorry my mistake what I was what I meant to say is

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your business you yourself yes yes that precisely yes I'm not door

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knocking to to help somebody in the living room no it's uh so this is the the cool thing where you know as you say

7:29

you know you say to me franchise and I say dominoes I say McDonald's I say

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subway it's all food but there's 90 different Industries including business

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to business that you can be involved in in franchising Sandler is a fantastic example of a B2B concept like you said

7:48

low investment very nice margins because the low you have low overhead you have zero staff

7:56

you could build it and you could have a whole firm if you'd like but you start with really no employees or maybe a

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part-time employee this is something that and it has a 50-year track record

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and so yeah you've got to be willing to bet on yourself and and

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you could probably mention this to plenty of people if your spouse isn't 100 locked up with you and support

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unconditionally don't even think about getting started because it's tough enough without having

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to go home and say so I gotta justify and prove my decision again so um and luckily I've been very

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blessed that way that's great that's great and I have to my wife is a big supporter of business

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even though she was a New York City police officer for 20 years um she also made the transmission into

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entrepreneurship um but talking about entrepreneurship let's talk a little bit about the um

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what you sharing with me uh earlier oh well I I noticed that Sam Zell passed

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away yesterday and the Wall Street Journal had one of his quotes from uh the The Shack Institute of real estate

9:04

that he uh talked to about a month ago or so and he said that an entrepreneur

9:09

is someone who specializes in doing something that he or she didn't know they could do

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um and I find that close to a franchisee is someone who leverages a system to

9:23

specialize in something that they didn't know that they couldn't do or could do and um I think it's that's what

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franchising is all about is leveraging someone's system um I didn't want to take the time to

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build a wheel that has already been built uh it's proven let's take it and run with it now that said if you are

9:43

going to be a franchisee you better be comfortable playing within some of the rules of franchising and not try to

9:49

reinvent the wheel because it's going to be fraught with frustration that's right that and that's a good point

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um but there is a myth about franchising where once you buy the franchise they're going to tell you everything that you

10:01

need to do and you're you're kind of a ball and chain in that you know that franchise becomes you know just an

10:07

average horse around your neck and that does depend on the franchise but um some are much more hands-off than

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others and I think part of that depends on their their life cycle but um but yeah by and large they'll say hey here's

10:21

the the plague ground to play in and go get them but no it's it's it's so true and and

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the funny thing is they're looking for Innovation from the franchise owners in

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a lot of cases even McDonald's to this day you know a large portion of their menu or suggestions from franchise

10:41

owners because their customers were saying hey do you have salaries do you have coffee you know and you name it I

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mean there used to be eight items now it's like I think 143 items on their menu and one of the uh shifts that uh Sandler

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has actually experienced since coven because that changed everything as everybody knows

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um we all went to Virtual training now we've been doing virtual training since uh probably 2016. I'm in Central

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Illinois so I'm pulling from a variety of markets so that clients didn't have to do what I did drive two hours one way

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we put in Virtual and we're able to stream to them and really leverage some of their time um and uh and so when that happened it

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was a pretty comfortable shift but uh we as franchisees really pulled together and that's one of the things I love

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about our group is the network of folks I mean we've got some wonderful friends the folks you've worked with at Long Island are dear friends of mine so uh

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we're very supportive and we want everybody else to succeed so it's really a fun piece to really pull together and

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leverage our strengths as a franchise Network to help others clients better and it's pretty cool oh it's fantastic

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and and that is the thing about franchising that people also don't understand is that the franchise company

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is sort of a guidance coaching facility and any good franchise and then they're

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not all good but the good ones are coaching you the franchise owners you

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are become your friends and family I mean I sold my first franchise I bought it in 2000 sold it in 2005. I'm still

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friends with a handful of them uh franchisees I was with when I it's 18

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years now uh I just spoke to somebody over this weekend that was a in the adjacent territory from me and and so

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you build lifelong relationships and you help you help each other if you're in the kind of business where there is some

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kind of products Maybe you can ask for you know you have extra cheese for the pizza or something you

12:39

know what I mean and they'll share it with you uh as opposed to being a mom and pop where you know you can't call

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your competitor and say hey yeah I ran out of cheese you know that's a little too close to Hometown

12:51

thanks thanks for the nightmares yeah we've lived that

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um and that's a great point so you you were in Domino like a I don't I'm not I don't want to

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put you on the spot I know you're not prepared for this question I don't think but if you would give me one or two or

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three differences between a dominoes and it doesn't have to be dominoes specifically but like a food brick and

13:17

mortar business as opposed to a Sandler business what are the differences what

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are the advantages that Sandler would you say well the the biggest difference is the Reliance on labor

13:28

um you know you can't do it all in a brick and mortar restaurant as that example

13:35

um you've got to have a lot of other people that you can count on uh and now there are folks that have a variety and

13:41

multiple of locations and they've got managers and supervisors in place that doesn't mean they can't walk away that

13:47

doesn't mean they can walk away they've got to keep an eye on those key performance indicators uh in that world

13:53

it's food and labor if you can't control those two you're not gonna make it you're not going to turn off the lights

13:58

enough or control utilities enough to make up for a bad food costs and area so um that's that's crucial there's a lot

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of variables that can really kill you um and uh and then you know your liability is also a lot higher um

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frankly in my B2B type sales my liability is pretty low um and my Reliance on labor is pretty

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low so and well the margins are much better too so there's some pretty good differences uh that really drew me away

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from one to the other uh but um but the similarities controlling your costs

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keeping your financial house in order are crucial being Hands-On

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um I've talked to I talked to a guy last week he said hey I want to find a franchise that I can buy and not worry

14:44

about and make a lot of money smoking opium that just doesn't exist

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but if you know what let me know but um but you know for us the controlling

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uh the key performance indicator is those new fresh conversations with new opportunities uh sure 21st century

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prospecting is is really come around there's a whole lot of new tools to to know what someone's behavioral style what they're searching online you name

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it we can find out about you but it's still going to have the conversation and uh you know for decades for centuries we

15:17

were using the you know smiling and dining with a phone book and so that's changed but you still have to have the conversations you gotta have a

15:24

conversation there's no question about it people often say to me well you know you're gonna get outdated because they'll come up with an AI that can

15:30

match somebody to a franchise company like no not really I mean there's Google you could do that with Google people

15:37

still want to buy franchise because they don't understand nuances and they get overwhelmed by all the legalities and

15:42

all the stuff the franchise disclose the documents and all that you do need somebody that's a coach in my opinion

15:48

you don't have to there's plenty of people do it you know it's funny the first franchise I bought I sold in 2005

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semi retired at 41 bought a second franchise on my own without talking to a consultant and I failed and lost a ton

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of money because it was cocky I thought I knew what I was doing and and I got into a food franchise and that did not

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work so why not get a coach somebody you know that will help you and and help you

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succeed and you know a Sandler coach is like that they want you to succeed I

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mean I can call Rob fish or Rich Isaac right now and they will drop whatever

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they're doing and help you with whatever problem for them the answer is yes what's the question I mean it and

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they're the kind of friends that you we love to have they're just good good solid people

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um you mentioned something now it's gone but that's right keep going oh I was going to think of something else

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so um the the differences in the models are are probably unless you could

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probably write a whole paper about it but in the food franchises you know what

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I have found in having been a food franchisee is that all the important

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kpis are really out of your control you can't control your rent you can't control your food costs and you know

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food could go up I mean like like it is now how do you control your cost in that if the prices go up you got to raise

17:14

your prices you're going to price yourself out of the market uh employees you know if they don't show up they

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don't show up what are you going to do um your landlord sees you're making money guess what your rent is going up

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you know all of the stuff is out of your control and your product is perishable when your food inventory is perishable

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and there's that so it so it's a tough way to go for some people it's great

17:39

don't get me wrong but if you're a first-time business owner and by the way

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like here's another myth that we could kind of talk about people think like oh Sandler you know sales training Sandler

17:51

training Sandler leadership you need to be a sales guy like you don't there's so many people

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which Isaac was an engineer and it was one of the top unit in the whole country

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I think he got the award last year two years ago I mean um

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it it that's the thing they sound level trained you I was a pizza guy for God's

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sakes um and 24 years later I'm running I'm still in my Sandler business so

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um and believe me people said what the heck what your pizza guy what do you know about this

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it was amazing how many of the pieces of the business puzzle extrapolate out into every other business model there is I

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mean it's the same basic stuff uh all the challenges are the same so yeah

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that's a good question um but I do have a question for you that's probably going to make your head explode

18:45

but bear with me on this one um what's the best piece of business advice you've ever gotten

18:51

oh wow um I knew it yeah

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um you you brought me for a couple of these but not that one um you know

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aside from keeping your financial house in order it which is really really important and

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having your spouse on board uh number three is probably do the behaviors do

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the behaviors do the behaviors you've got to be willing and able to roll up your sleeves and keep plugging away uh a

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failure is just getting a different set of results than we were expecting so it's going to happen that's how we

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learn we've got books on it for God's sake Success Through failing uh and you

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just can't be afraid to to keep trying and doing the things that other people aren't willing to do yes I dumpster

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Dives many nights uh two three in the morning looking through uh competitors dumpsters and receipts and things yeah

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am I proud of it well no but maybe a little it got me data to run my

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business by the day we couldn't google it so uh but are you willing to do those things

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so interesting so when you say do the behaviors what do you mean by that I mean what are those key performance

20:07

indicators those behaviors the leading indicators that will drive your business for us it's uh one of those initial

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conversations how are you getting those uh is that go to a networking event walking into somebody's office

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um stop at a stranger that you can reach and touch and say hey what do you do find a way to spark those conversations

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uh build that Kings through your CRM and your data Aggregates to find out who are

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your Prime's targets and find a way to keep dripping on them whether it's email on phone calls to get a conversation

20:40

have some ways to do videos to build your brand to get your face out there so people get comfortable with who you are

20:45

and they start to see all right this guy's speaking something that I need to hear more about what are those things

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you can control on a daily consistent basis to build your plan to accomplish your strategies to fulfill your goals to

20:58

reach your vision that's great and and so what what I was instructed when I was in my Sandler

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presidents Club class you know 10 years ago um I was like I got a goal I want to

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like make this much money and you're like wait a second you can't control a goal but you can control the behavior

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that will get you to the goal and that was an epiphany for me I was like well I've talked to a business owner two

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weeks ago he said well here's what we're measuring we're measuring the results I said well didn't you mention your sales

21:34

Cycles three months long he said yeah it takes us three months to get it I said so if you're only measuring the results

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you're six months away from having an impact

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it just doesn't work um you can't control it that is so and

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that's it you know if I was talking to somebody I placed um in a franchise and and it was like a

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B2B type thing you know signs and posters and whatever they did and uh and

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he was struggling in the first six months and I said uh are you doing you

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know your key behaviors and they're like yeah they tell me to you know call five people a day but I

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don't got time for that well that's one of your suffering come

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on I mean if you don't have time to be in business

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and so sometimes with with that guy I might have to say what it because it's part time what what else you got going on

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um but yeah he doesn't maybe he doesn't even know uh what his behaviors are in some cases so right right and you know

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as as what happens I think to a lot of people is the the business becomes overwhelming and it's just putting out

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fires and and then the thing that you hate to do you have an excuse for now because you

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know I had to go do that you know so I wouldn't call I couldn't call my

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prospects because I had to go Behavior avoidance is a very creative skill I mean I've aggressively waited for my

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phone to ring I can't tell you how many times it's just uh just aggressively waiting for that thing to ring

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um you know um before we got on I got a phone call and I know we can't talk about Revenue but can we talk about results from clients

23:25

is that fair I think so as long as it's not a franchise no nope it's a just a guy I

23:31

know that in sales uh he's in his mid-30s and he said Bob I'm kind of excited I wanted to call you and tell

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you um he said I'm on track to make 250 this year 250 000. he said it kind of blows

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my mind because 10 years ago I was maybe making 30 grand he said it's just pretty wild and he

23:51

just wanted to call him thank me and uh you know that's humbling I gotta tell you um because he's doing it he's out making

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it happen uh I just gave him a little confidence and some few tools to to go there so uh it's kind of fun and now

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that's his income the company itself is doing pretty well on top of that so uh

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I'll let somebody else do that math but no no that's fantastic and it's what's

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cool about your role and and I think what your colleagues enjoy is what

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you're doing is laying out kind of whatever you want to call it the road map we call it a cookbook in Sandler you

24:28

know you're laying it out you're helping them figure it out you're saying hey don't think about making a million dollars just think about making five

24:34

phone calls today um and then a year from now let's see where you're at

24:39

and and then you encourage them you give them a little attitude adjustment you try to erase the head trash and get them

24:46

out of their own head and then you set them free and then you get a call like that man that's gonna blow your mind

24:53

that's great it really is it makes going through a bunch of prospects that say no I don't want you okay uh it's it's not that we

25:01

enjoy it but it's not the right person we don't want a hostage um if you're not open-minded and willing

25:07

to face some facts then let's not work together um and back to your bat uh comparison I

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I was thinking that as kind of Ratchet uh I'm gonna give you some some behaviors to do uh you may or may not do

25:20

them all right well let's look at the technique you're using let's play with that a little bit refine that all right maybe that's something you won't do

25:26

because your belief system won't let you all right let's tweak that now we can go back around to the behaviors and we just kind of keep ratcheting that and it just

25:32

keeps expanding and it can be never-ending I mean I I participate in the Sandler

25:40

black belt classes twice a month with some of the greatest people that Sandler

25:46

has produced over the recent years um and that's what we do we're like

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there's certain techniques that like I got that down I learned that 10 years ago before we go we dissect it to the

25:58

nth degree well like you're right it never ends it's fantastic I kind of

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think of that like a sales gym you know I want you to get sweaty and hear you so you don't get bloody out there and let's

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let's break it apart and have fun with it where it's okay to fall down there's

26:16

no money on the table so but Rob Fishman calls it the uh the dojo so

26:22

you know you gotta they're honest with people you know and and you're sitting in the room with other business owners

26:29

and and and you know they admit that they screwed up a call or whatever and

26:35

it's like okay let's let's diagnose it in the dojo You Know cover your belly button because you know you don't want

26:42

to get hit yup protected and safe and and I've gotten

26:47

so much value out of that just I can't even oh my goodness I can't even tell you and and and I made friends with

26:54

these people too so now you know years later I still talk to a lot of these folks that I met in Sandler classes you

27:00

know 10 years ago and so that's a beautiful thing too is just because we're all in it together you're like

27:06

trying to figure this out like how do you do this and celebrating each other's successes and that builds a real Bond so

27:12

and and when you're looking at a franchise uh dive in and talk to other

27:17

franchisees uh because if you can't get along with you're not gonna go with them all I I'm not gonna kid you there but

27:23

you've got to find enough that you can fit into that culture and be comfortable because you will form a connection when

27:29

you fight through the same common fights and come out better on the other side it's it's pretty cool how that works

27:36

I've got some friends from my early days of dominoes and uh it's been fun to celebrate the parts of their lives with

27:42

their kids getting married and those things and be a part of that so those are unique well it is unique and it's it's a very

27:50

unique experience um where in Corporate America you know a

27:56

lot of people are smiling and shaking their hand but they don't have your best interest in mind

28:02

I have no connection I have no concept of what that's like I've never been in Corporate America so those I just they

28:09

don't resonate but uh I I hear those stories uh yeah no it's it's intense but

28:15

but I think it's you know with with this the thing I like about Sandler though is

28:20

like like I said they're not they don't teach you sales but it's more about how

28:26

to consult and and they call it like negative reverse and like all this stuff it's almost like a reverse psychology

28:33

type of thing and and that I think is what helps you know if you're not a

28:38

salesperson you go through Sandler you don't become a salesperson but you become I don't even know what to call it

28:45

but I think it was a trusted advisor I mean I I want to be able to counsel and

28:50

coach and ask you enough questions to help you discover together with me what's the best path forward now we are

28:56

using a system to get there but it's it's being a trust advisor

29:02

um and and you know you've gotten there when you start to get calls about things that have nothing to do about what you

29:09

do and uh that's when you know that all right do you see more value in me than

29:14

just what the widget I'm selling uh or the vendor I represent it's a blessing that's so awesome so I

29:21

want to ask you as we tie this up um is there a myth that you could bust

29:26

about sales or Sandler or franchise uh

29:31

well when one record about uh being you know personal development selling that

29:37

role of what we try to help people with and being a Sandler franchisee as well is that you've got to be tough

29:44

um when in reality I want you to be vulnerable on the outside because that you need to be strong on the inside and

29:50

I kind of contrast that to folks that are strong on the inside they tend to be vulnerable the inside and they often

29:56

show up as bullies so uh how do you really solidify your core so the other

30:02

slings and arrows that come your way don't really hurt as much so that's one

30:07

thing that comes to mind um what was the other part of the question the franchising in general

30:13

um I mean if if you had something that sometimes it's like a a quark like

30:19

people always say this about franchising or about sales or whatever but but it's nonsense well for the sales that it's

30:26

not a natural born art you don't have to be a natural born salesperson um sometimes the the quiet more passive

30:32

oriented sales people are better because they're unassuming they're not seen as a threat because a salesperson with a pen

30:39

is armed for God's sake so I can make you sign something but uh so can you just go in and be humble and and ask

30:46

some questions now it doesn't mean you're not you know a presence you need to have a personal presence but uh but

30:52

you don't have to be a fast talking backslack slapping slick sales person that's that's the one that everybody

30:58

gets cringy about yeah and as far as franchising goes

31:03

um they go to the typical stereotypical scenarios that McDonald's the Domino's the Subways those that are front and

31:11

center but as you said there's 90 different Industries do you say there's

31:16

a lot of good systems out there not all of them are good but there's a lot of good systems out there that can help you find the way you want to make a living

31:22

uh and that's the key how do you want to make a living there's a lot of ways to make money in this world and I've seen a

31:29

lot of them and I've been blown away by a lot of them but uh they're not all for everybody and so find the one that picks

31:36

fits for you call Tom let him guide you through some of the options ask you some questions about what you want to do with your life what do you want to be when

31:42

you grow up and uh let them do some matchmaking let him help you pick what fits for you hopefully it's Sandler uh

31:49

if you want to taste come down to our Summit in the spring we have one uh in Florida every year that invites the world to come in and join us uh check

31:57

out my stuff on LinkedIn or YouTube and and see what we've got Bob Barber and Barbara and Associates so I was going to

32:03

ask you say that again um LinkedIn is Bob Barber um and um our YouTube site is uh

32:11

Sandler by Barber Associates Inc so and all of that will be on

32:17

thefranchiseacademy.com so check out the links below and get in touch with Bob

32:22

and and understand how you could change your life through Sandler and all the

32:27

training that they have available to you anywhere in the world Bob thank you so much for being on the franchise Academy

32:34

with us thank you very much for the invitation Tom this is cool God bless you and we'll

32:39

see you soon take care

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